Jon
Today is Saturday, May 11th. I am here with Countess Comyn, also known as Shadow. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Comyn
Hello. I’ve been in the SCA for approximately 45 years. I’ve been in the SCA longer than our kingdom has been one. I have been a fighter. I am currently playing in steel. I have been an archer. I have been Queen. I am a pelican. I am a laurel. All of those things.

Jon
Where do you start in looking for a new site?

Comyn
I look in the greater metropolitan area of the group I’m in. For Three Rivers it can be Illinois and Missouri.

Jon
What do you look for in a site?

Comyn
I will look for a large fighting space that has clearance for spears. I will look for a kitchen that we can use. Sometimes, sites won’t allow you to use the kitchen, though they’ll allow you to use the rest of the event space. Look for potable water that is accessible for water bearers. Look for an accessible area to put armor. A commons area for people. A large area where they won’t mind food being dropped or scuffing floors. Three Rivers luckily has a floor mat that we can put down but not all groups do. Also look for outside if it’s [a] mild day – 70s or so you can have outdoor space.

Look for ample parking. If it’s parking in a questionable safety area, you will have people that won’t want to come because their cars are going to be broken into.

Plan on how long the event is going to take: if it’s a day event or it can be an overnight because you might have bunks because you have a campground. Plan for worst case scenario weather.

So look for all of these things when you’re planning your event.

Jon
How do you try to convince a site owner to let us do our thing?

Comyn
In many cases, the first thing you must discuss is insurance. The SCA does allow us a certain level of insurance. They are going to be concerned about the use of weaponry. Some places, like schools, won’t allow you to have steel.

Some places aren’t tall enough in the height of a building and so you’d have to be concerned about their lights.

So, you have to say um oh yes we will do such and so. Bring a spear to show them what this looks like.

Bring ample pictures to show them what you’re doing. Bring lots of pictures where people are in court garb and they look normal; don’t bring pictures of people that are wearing two bunny skins – they will see those anyway.

Find videos. Now, with social media, you can find ample videos on, “This is pensic War. This is other things.”

They’ve also done things like, “We’ve done demos for” and quote these, “demos for the American Legion. We’ve done a demo for, repeatedly do demos for schools.” Name which schools we have done.

The more normal we appear and the more mainstream and not, “we’re a LARPing community on the edge” then a venue will say “Yes, you can use this site,” and not charge us more because they’re worried about their security deposit.

Definitely discuss things like security deposit.

Be mindful of the fact that we are guests in their venue. So, act as a guest. “Oh, this looks like a beautiful kitchen. May we use these things?”

Use a lot of “may [we]” not, “we need” when you are discussing what criteria are. Definitely bring pictures. You can bring garb even. Or show what artisans do because showing the art and the skill of things can sometimes calm people down to, “Oh, you guys are artists too!” Because a lot of craft fairs happen.

Jon
How is finding an event site changed during your time in the SCA?

Comyn
One of the biggest things was alcohol. Not all of our venues allow alcohol use. Not of all of our venues allow marijuana use. Both of which are legal in, Missouri. Some groups will not take a site, I believe Three Rivers is included that won’t take a site that’s dry because they can’t guarantee that people won’t drink in the parking lot.

Jon
How do you find Synergy between your theme and your event space?

Comyn
Have a firm idea of what size a venue you need. Be flexible as to the cost.

When I first joined the SCA, we got a lot of sites for free because we were through a college. The Shire of Bears Haven, was on Wash U campus. And so we got a lot of access to Washington University – every part of Washington University for free. We no longer have those sites.

We must consider the size of something. Whether or not the weather will accommodate the high-period event that you wish to have. If you’re having a Duke DeBury event there’s a lot of flowing houpelonds. You don’t really want that at an outdoor event because people are not going to wear that out there.

However, [for] indoor sites, you also have to accommodate whether or not you can decorate the walls. How you’re going to decorate the walls without impuning the integrity of the wall. So, those are how you marry what your plan is, your great vision, to how is that going to look? You can cover up a lot of stuff with curtains, but you can’t make a castle. You can’t bring hay bales in [to an indoor event space] even though you want to fight over them. You’d have to figure out barriers.

If you want to hold a high period Tournament event indoors, that works best. And you can even hold that outside but you certainly can’t bring a hay bale in[doors] and build a bridge battle.

Jon
What are the hidden things that can go wrong?

Comyn
Damages to the site. We are guests. Do not damage the crockery. Do not use it to fight with. Do not knock the handles off. Of the crockery. Do not throw it at your girlfriend because you’re being cute.

We’re a guest in someone’s home. Always remember that.

Jon
Today is Tuesday, June 11th and I’m here with Her Excellency Sláine [ní Chiaráin] and we’re going to be talking about finding sites for events. So to start, would you introduce yourself?

Sláine
Good morning. I am Baroness Sláine ní Chiaráin – Barony of Three Rivers.

Jon
And how long have you been in the SCA?

Slaine
I Started in 1989.

Jon
So, where do you start in looking for a new site?

Slaine
I’m always keeping my ears open, at least when I was more active.

My husband Joseph’s uncle was used to be the principal of CBC and we went to a thing there and I’m like, “Oh ask your uncle if we could use this for SCA” [and] he’s like, “No”.

I’ve tried in the past to just try to get a better database of sites. One thing I did a long time ago was have a raffle and I rounded up some prizal prizes and every time someone submitted a site they would be entered in the raffle and to win the prizes. Um, And I drew from that list for a while, but it’s pretty outdated by now. I have called and driven to Park and driven to them to look for ones that might work. Yeah, those are things I’ve done.

Jon
What do you look for in a site?

Slaine
All the things. Space for everybody. The primary thing seems to be space for fighting. I try to make sure there’s space for children that’s not right on top of the fighting but not so far away that the parents feel isolated. Parking. If they have a kitchen, if they have a restrictive catering contract. Um, Those are the those are the main things.

Jon
How do you convince a site owner to let us do our thing?

Slaine
Try to couch it in terms of chivalry. And use words [like] “Middle Ages” instead of “medieval” and things like that, to make us sound nicer.

Jon
How has finding an event site changed during your time in the SCA?

Slaine
It’s gotten harder. A lot of places have closed. A lot of spaces are no longer available to rent out. A lot of churches, stopped letting people use their space.

We also seemed to expect bigger number of people could attend to the event.

Jon
What are some hidden things that can go wrong with a site?

Slaine
Putting the children right next to the kitchen. It’s happened twice at events in the rivers. Not having enough parking or parking, that changes rules right in the middle of the day. Or, you know, right around five or something. Stairs all over the place. People can’t get around. And then and then the elevator is broken or restricted.

Jon
You have anything else you want to add?

Slaine
So many buildings are vacant that if we could just lease it – a big empty space for our weekend and we could make it our own as long as there was electricity and toilets that work and air conditioning maybe for the summer. Um, or a heating for the winter. It shouldn’t be so hard to fit us into a space.

Jon
I tend to agree. Thank you so much.

Jon
Today is Wednesday, May 15th and I’m here with Hrodwyn. We are going to be talking about sites. First off, please introduce yourself.

Hrodwyn
Hi. I’m Hrodwyn. Formerly Carolyn Buxton. I changed my name a long time ago. I’ve been in since 1983. I have run so many events. I just don’t even remember how many I’ve run before. I have run, did run the first Chieftains. I’ve also ran a known world Symposium on costuming in history and numerous winter courts. That kind of thing.

Jon
Where do you start in looking for a new site?

Hrodwyn
Well, first of all, they have to be available on the day you want. Secondly, look for neighborhoods that are safe. We’ve had events in places before that have just not been safe as far as cars parked on the streets. Also look for a space that’s going to be able to, to fit, however, many people you think are going to be there. And hopefully, with a little bit of atmosphere – more than a gym. Sometimes, that’s not possible, sometimes it is. We have had events in at Christ Church Cathedral downtown, which is lovely. Not the safest neighborhood but it’s lovely. That makes a great coordination spot.

Jon
What do you look for in a site?

Hrodwyn
Space mostly. If they have rooms for privy chambers. If they have rooms for the populace together, so they’re not in where the fighting is or where court was. Spaces spaces for classrooms. That kind of thing.

Jon
How do you try to convince a site owner to let us do our thing?

Hrodwyn
Well, that can be difficult. I tried to get my old church in Ferguson once to let us host a RUSH there and I had to meet with the council for the church. And they had some very interesting questions thinking that we were a little bit weird and had strange religious beliefs, which of course we didn’t. So I had to reassure them about that and they were going to let us use it. Unfortunately, the that RUSH was given to a different group so we didn’t use that site. So you do have to kind of be kind. Be very open about what you do. And make sure that they know that that your normal people who just have a fascination with the Middle Ages.

Jon
How is finding an event site changed during your time in the SCA?

Hrodwyn
Oh, it’s gotten harder. Especially if you want to have a feast. A lot of venues these days have their own catering and they don’t want you to be able to bring in any food. So that makes it more difficult. It’s also A little harder because we have more people that come to events than we used to. So finding a venue that holds up to 400, people can be quite difficult.

Jon
What are hidden things that can go wrong with a site?

Hrodwyn
You may get in and find the kitchen, doesn’t work the way you expected it to.

One Chieftains that I ran at Francis de Sales I set up everything and as I was leaving, I noticed that people came into the gym to play basketball and rearranged what I had done. That was not fun. So, you just have to be aware of what other groups are using it, how they’re using it.

We also had an incident a long time ago where there were two groups using a church. We used one part and the church used youth group used another part. And the youth group came after we were gone and we had cleaned up and messed up their kitchen and we got blamed for it. So you have to be aware of what else is going on with the site.

Jon
How do you find Synergy between your theme and an event space?

Hrodwyn
Oh gosh. That is hard. I’m not sure I have an answer for that, sometimes you can’t find synergy for it. It did help when we had the walls, the fabric walls, which I don’t know if those are very much in use anymore. That way you could hide things. The problem is with buildings being very modern and us being very not modern. So, it’s kind of hard to to do that sometimes.

Jon
Today is Wednesday, June 26th, and I’m here with Ellien to talk about finding event spaces. First off, would you like to introduce yourself?

Ellien
My name is Ellien Chadaway. I have been in Three Rivers my whole SCA life, which started in 1988, and I think I probably became an officer for the first time in 1993, right when I graduated college as our Minister of Arts and Sciences. So I’ve had a few positions throughout the years with lots of different baronages interviews and seneschals.

Jon
Where do you start in looking for a new site?

Ellien
So for Three Rivers our events are fairly large. We need to make sure that we have a site that can accommodate a kingdom level event, which is 300-400 people. That is not easy to find. Weekly meeting is having 50, 60, 70, 80 people at it. So even a small event for us, not a kingdom level event, we’re gonna want a site that can accommodate 120 people. So I think our big constraint [on a] site is on that.

I think you started by asking, “Where would I look?”

Churches, community centers…

Engrained as I move throughout the city and go places is evaluating, “Is this suitable for an SCA event?”

I had a lovely church with a beautiful kitchen and enough parking near Forest Park and Washington University. It was nowhere near big enough to accommodate even the smallest of Three Rivers events.

So, churches, community centers, synagogues, and other halls. A VFW Hall an American Legion Hall… Places like that are are good starters for what could accommodate us.

Look, it’s not easy.

We’ve looked at, like, indoor football field, like indoor sports arena. It was large enough to accommodate us. In the end we felt it wasn’t quite the right atmosphere for what we were trying to do like a coronation, but it could be the right atmosphere for like a regional fighter practice or something like that.

Jon
What do you look for in a site?

Ellien
So, space big enough for us. A common room. A room for fighting if not outdoor space [for fighting]. But we can’t count on outdoor weather being conducive to fighting. So we typically want a gym large enough to fight in, plus some kind of common room.

Secondarily, some kind of commercial kitchen. Can we mount a feast here?

I think also, that’s what we’ve traditionally looked for. I think events are changing and that we need to adapt our site needs for events that are changing. We don’t have to have a feast every time, the feast does not have to serve 70, 80, 90, 100 people.

We could do a cold buffet or something like that. We could do crock pots. You know, maybe we have a cold sandwich buffet that’s serving everyone or maybe we have a smaller feast that’s only accommodating 40 or 50 people.

I think we need to look a little differently. I think we’re almost always going to want to have fighting. We’ll always need parking because we are all coming in vehicles from all over the state and that’s important. We don’t always need a kitchen. We need to accommodate activities other than fighting. The populace needs to assemble on a place other than the gym because all the fighters are taking up space and the lists are taking up space.

Jon
How do you convince a site owner to let us do our thing?

Ellien
We have people who can do that. And the newest person in the SCA, doesn’t necessarily have to do that.

I’m really comfortable talking, like we have a lot of people who are very comfortable doing these things and you can bring in big guns for that.

Her former baroness is Gwendolyn is in sales. And, when I was seneschal, I would use Gwendolyn. Gwendolyn went on bar crawls to help accommodate. And she would negotiate with like how the drinks whatever things were going to work out.

So it’s a conversation, but I also think it’s not one you need to have, unless you’re comfortable with it. You can bring in big guns and bring in people to do that.

I’ve been in the SCA more than 30 years. I’m 54 years old. I can talk to the grown-ups, like a grown-up and explain our organization and answer questions for them. There are materials from the Society as well that are readily available. There is a hands out you can get from sca.org. That is something in John. When you put this online, you can find the link to it or we’ll find the link, right? That is something like “How to Convince a Site Owner, what the SCA is.”

[The document in question is “A Guide to Introduce Our Organization to Site Owners and Managers for Potential Use of Facilities by the SCA” and can be found here.]

Yeah, we’re a little bit like the Renaissance Festival but also a little different because everyone within our organization is a participant. We are not putting things on as a show for the public. We are not a money-making organization which is a typical difference than the Ren Fair. And a site owner is going to apply their knowledge of the world to you, to your conversation, and see if it matches up. There are ways we do match up with Ren Fest: we look like they Ren Fest. And there are ways that we don’t: we’re not here to make money. We’re a not-for-profit. Everybody is a participant. We are not players on a stage.

So I, think it’s a conversation. It may be more than one conversation, it’s a series of conversations. If you meet a site owner it’s, “Hey, I’m part of an organization and we would be interested in renting space for all day on a Saturday. Do you ever rent this space out?”

The other thing I found is that when people rent space out, they want to rent it by the room or by the classroom schools are a good example and trying to rent a school for a RUSH session. And a community center may do this as well. They’re going to rent those things out by the classroom. But we need all of them. I need all of your classrooms. I need your gym. I need your cafeteria. I need your whole building. They’re not often prepared in terms of a rate sheet to rent a building to you for 12 hours.

More than that: From seven in the morning until nine o’clock at night, they’re not prepared to rent the building for 14 hours at a price point that we can afford. But, don’t let that stop you. It’s a series of conversations.

“Well, actually I’m interested in renting your whole building for a weekends in late February or early March, would you be able to accommodate that?”

So I think it’s a negotiation, you don’t have to accept their price list because they’re not usually used to dealing with people like us. You can get them excited about it and you can feel them out and if they give you a price list and they say they never rent the whole building, finish the conversation. Thank them doesn’t mean we have to let it go.

Somebody else might give a call: “Hey, I’m the legal representative of our organization. I’m like, the regional president here. And you talked to one of our members about renting, the building, and we have your price list. I’m wondering if you could work with us, in renting us the whole building for a longer period of time. We are very good! We clean up after ourselves. We leave a place better than we found it. We do this all the time. We have references and can I tell you more about the organization?”

So, you don’t ever have to do this alone and if you’re inexperienced at it (a) that’s how you get experience (b), there’s people who’ve done this a lot, so lean on us.

Jon
I appreciate what you were saying about making a negotiation. Don’t just go by the price sheet. One of the sites we’re going to be using this fall is one where normally they charge per person per campsite per day.

Ellien
Yeah, yes!

Jon
And so us renting that site with the number of people, we anticipate would be far out of our price point.

Ellien
Yes.

Jon
But because they normally don’t have 300 people show up at one time, even offering half of that amount is still more than they could normally make in a weekend.

Ellien
Right?

Jon
And it makes it much more palatable for them when they realize that.

Ellien
Yes. And there’s also a way where you can say, “Look, rather than doing per person, which puts you at risk, if our participation isn’t what we anticipate, you rent the whole site to me. I take on the risk of, if I don’t advertise my event well, [or] if I put my event up against another popular event, then, my organization is accepting the risk of low attendance. Your organization gets a guaranteed price.” And that’s how we negotiated, I did negotiate a contract like that once and it was the same thing they wanted to do per person.

We’re also really self-sufficient. We’ve run our own setup and we have our own cash system like we’re really good at this.

Jon
What are the hidden things that can go wrong with a site?

Ellien
Things have been locked. Things that we expected to be open. Things that we didn’t know were locked and we needed to make sure that we had a contact that we could call that day and not a nine to five Monday through Friday office number.

Snow removal was an issue one year. That they had not planned to have the parking lot plowed on a Saturday and we had a lot of snow on Saturday and I think it was a church and and they definitely had contracted to have the church plowed on Sunday.

Parking can be not what you thought it was going to be. The grass is too wet to park on. We’re making mud pits in the grass when we didn’t mean to. One time, we parked on top of the neighbor’s [property] line and we had to move a row of cars because it was beyond the property line.

These things happen, they happen all the time. Everyone in the SCA is really good at believing, because we are participants and not patrons, everyone in the SCA is really good at believing that it is their problem to solve. So overflowing trash cans? It is your problem to solve. Find out where the bags are and find out where the dumpster is. It’s not a difficult problem to solve.

Toilets that need plunging. Also, your problem to solve. Running out of the normal toiletries, disasters, in the kitchen, where is the mop, do they have cleaning supplies? You solve all of these things. You get comfortable opening doors in sites, finding mops. Like, “Well, I found a mop over here.” We found snow shovels. We found ice melt. We put the call out.

All of the things that can go wrong, do go wrong and nobody in the SCA blames anybody else because we all know, we’re all participants, it’s all our problems to solve, don’t worry about it.

Jon
How do you find Synergy between your theme and an event space? So

Ellien
That’s a really interesting question. And either one of those things can come first. We did a lovely event that was done up like an Italian villa and they had beautiful backdrops and things like that. And I I think it almost came about because the site suggested “Italian Villa” and somebody had an idea that they could paint backdrops and paper mache marble columns and things like that because some of it was already there. And we’re like, “Yeah, great. Let’s do that.”

And in other cases we want to decorate the event site to match our vision on it. So I think it can go either way.

I learned a lesson from Rhianwen when when she stewarded an event once. And she was using a Trello board or something at the time. Her first item of business was “Find a theme for the event.” And it made me realize that I didn’t have to have the theme first. I could willingly steward an event and find the theme later. I didn’t step up to steward that event because I couldn’t think of a theme or an idea or I didn’t feel like I was creative enough. I was like, “well I don’t I don’t have any ideas for what it should be.” And it made me realize that willingness is what comes first. We’ll fill in the details.

Jon
Any final thoughts?

Ellien
Many hands make light work, which is the thing I say all the time. If you’re thinking about doing this you can do this. Ask us your questions. If you feel like you’re only going to be good at part of it and you have holes in the second, third, fourth parts of it talk to us. We can connect you with somebody who can shore up your weak points or your holes and let you shine with the things that you’re good at. We can we can make this work.

Jon
Thank you.

Jon
Today is Wednesday, July 10th. I am here with Gwyneth and we are going to be talking about finding event sites. First off, would you like to introduce yourself?

Gwynneth
Hi there. I am newly Dame Gwynneth wraig Rhys, 10th Century Welch Widow and I’ve been in since [19]93 or [199]4. So, about 30 years I’ve been in the SCA in various kingdoms and shires and baroniesies.

Jon
Where do you start in looking for a new site?

Gwynneth
One of the things that I think about is what kind of an event are we looking for? Are we looking for an event for a winter, one-day or mid-summer one-day? Are we looking for a camping event? And so, we look at different things for those different types of events. The one-days we start looking at community centers and churches that have gyms. Or schools or things attached, that might be willing to rent for a day for an event. And for camping events, we start looking for places further out of town that might be able to accommodate a weekend – a full three-day Friday, Saturday, Sunday event.

Jon
What do you look for in a site?

Gwynneth
Like I just said, between the two for a day event when we know we’re going to Um, be hosting 150 to 250 people, we need some place that’s going to accommodate that. We have to consider whether or not there’s going to be a feast and do we need a fully working kitchen? Do we know if we’re going to have a fairly healthy Royal presence and they’re going to need lots of privy chambers? Is it a just a Barony event and so we’re not going to expect that many people? And obviously for camping events, we have to think of what kind of accommodations are there for inclement weather. If something happens and it starts to rain will we still have a place to hold whatever tournaments that we’re going to be holding? Are their cabins or things that people can move to if it gets really bad.

We have to know whether or not we’re going to be able to have a equestrian events – if there’s room for horses whether it’s in paddocks or if we’re going to have to bring all of our own things and the horses are going to be on lines for that evening. Just things like that.

Jon
How do you try to convince a site owner to let us do our thing?

Gwynneth
I really stress the educational aspect of what we do and the fact that we aren’t here just to play a game. That a lot of what we’re doing during an event is actually researched and documented recreation of things from the Middle Ages. We try and do our best to learn how things were done then and to reproduce them now. On the fighting side stress the safety aspects of what we do and what safety precautions we put in place like the bringing our own floor mats and list ropes and things to make sure that people stay safe.

And then camping events, we try and stress the fact that we try and leave a site better than we found it and that we have people who take special care of other people’s properties.

Jon
How has finding an event site changed during your time in the SCA?

Gwynneth
In 30 years it’s gotten a lot harder because of the legal aspects. People are more litigious. And so site owners are a lot more wary of renting to any kind of a organization like ours.

And a lot of schools and churches will not rent anymore to outside organizations. I do try and let them know that we do have both liability and special coverage insurance. And that we would make sure that they were completely covered for anything that may happen during the event and they would not be held liable for anything. Sometimes it helps. Sometimes, it does not.

Jon
What are the hidden things that can go wrong with a site?

Gwynneth
For the outside weekend events sometimes we’ve had issues with either having porta potties not show up or the facilities that are provided by the site owners can’t handle the number of people that we would have on a site and toilets back up and become inoperable.

Weather has paid played a role in the past with shutting down an event early. In day events, we’ve had sites that were pretty much impossible to get to because of weather events.

That and just not having enough bathrooms for the number of people that we have and then being overwhelmed.

We occasionally have had site owners who have gone MIA and we haven’t been able to get a hold of them to make sure that our contracts are either fulfilled or that the site is actually going to be available for the days that we’ve discussed having it. That’s rare, but it has happened.

Jon
How do you find Synergy between your theme and an event space?

Gwynneth
It depends on what the theme of the event is. If we’re having like a coronation, or a crown list – something where Court is going to be one of the biggest features of the event – then I love having a site that is imposing. I’m not sure, that’s the right word. But the use of a room that’s not just a gymnasium or something like that. Something that gives atmosphere.

If it’s an outdoor event, again, the synergy: if it’s an equestrian event is there a place for the populace to be able to watch the horses? Are they going to be shuffled off to a far corner or are they going to be pretty much in the mainstream so people can watch them and learn what we do with the equestrian.

The same for archery and I realize that’s a little harder to get closer to people. But is it not so far away that people just don’t go there unless they’re actually shooting?

If we had a masquerade ball or something like that, having a space that lends itself to decorations that foster the feeling of the event.

Jon
Any final thoughts or comments?

Gwynneth
Having events is hard work. It is one of the things that we do that there’s not a whole lot of tangible reward for it other than knowing that you’ve provided an opportunity for your friends and the people in the SCA to have an experience that they might otherwise not have had.

You may be able to provide that magical moment that we all talk about. And the fact that we are all volunteers and we do this is pretty amazing actually. But at the end of a well-run event and everybody’s worn out and you’re sitting around and you’re talking about it, there’s a satisfaction in knowing that you have been able to pull this off for your friends and your family a lot of times. And then in going to a well-run event yourself when you’re not part of the the crew that’s running it, and seeing how well some other group has put together the same thing I think is one of the things that keeps us in the SCA: I think being able to share that camaraderie with with people from all over is one of the things that makes us keep coming back.